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1993-11-22
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=================================================================
RESUME-2 - RTC -- Continuation of Resume Dialogue
Hosts: Michael Holzschu & John Maihos
October 11th, 1993
=================================================================
<JOHN.MAIHOS> In my opinion, when you are applying to a temp agency...
<JOHN.MAIHOS> you should list as many experiences as possible.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> It will be their job to market you accordingly....
<JOHN.MAIHOS> However, when you are interviewing
<JOHN.MAIHOS> for a specific position I suggest you tailor the resume
<JOHN.MAIHOS> to that position.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Is that what you've done?
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> Well, I have kept my temp resume to one page so I am
sure I have left things out.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I suppose you cant' list -everything-. :)
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Heck, I worked in a sub shop once.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I don't list it anymore.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> (I assume you know what subs are.) :)
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> <--- My life's just to darn fascinating I guess.
<[Tony] A.MENARD1> John do you feel that resumes have any real value except
when applying for a specific job?
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> John Don't you want to list as much as possible to perk
the interest and possible job assignments with the temp agency?
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> Little unclear on "shop" though. ;)
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Yes. List everything.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> You see, my resume isn't geared to a temp agency.
<[David] D.MEYER1> Hi, Mike.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Tony had a question.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Answer...
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I think resumes are important for -all- of us to have.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I have mine and keep it up to date.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I'm not in the job hunting market right now..
<JOHN.MAIHOS> but things have a way of changing when we least suspect it.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> If I was applying to a company..
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I -would- send a resume tailored for that company.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> John Why don't you introduce yourself for everyone.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I don't buy into sending only a cover letter to "peak" interest.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> OK Mike. Thanks for the opportunity.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I am personnel director for a group of newspapers located in
Massachusetts.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Our firm has papers all over the country.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I've been in personnel for 10 years now.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> In management for 16.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Enough on me.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Does everyone know you, Mike?
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> No not yet.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> I'm a personnel systems consultant that...
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> specializes in writing Handbooks, job descriptions, etc.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> our Company has been in existence for 7 years in the
midwest.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> That's it for me!
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Tony any other questions?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> While I don't profess to be an expert....
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I can give you my perspective from a personnel director's point
of view.
<[Tony] A.MENARD1> John, I like to tailor my resume to each job that I'm
applying for, but how would you suggest one could make a resume stand out. I
have trouble believing that each of the hundred plus resumes that come in are
actually read
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Usually the cover letter is going to be your
<JOHN.MAIHOS> best place to catch my attention.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I read all resumes.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Generally I don't read all the "clips" that people send.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Give me a good opening line in your cover letter and I'll read
further.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Otherwise, it's just a quick scan.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Which brings up the question on "who" should write the
resume.....
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> The person involved...
<[Tony] A.MENARD1> John, how many resumes do usually receive for an advertised
position?
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> or a professional resume writer?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Gee Mike, does your question inspire you to answer?
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> My feelings are.....
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> the first time, find some one that is good at writing
resumes....
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Most of us are not good at selling ourselves to
perspective employers.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Comments?
<[Tony] A.MENARD1> Mike are you suggesting a professional writer?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I agree with the selling aspect.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> People are usually too humble.
<[David] D.MEYER1> I agree. That's why I bought computer software to get some
ideas and assistance in writing my resume.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> Since I have been running my own company for 5 years &
only infrequent other work, who do I use as professional references
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> I still remember my first resume that was written by a
professional....
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Initially I wondered who they were talking about...
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Was your name spelled right?
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> but further reading the wording and verbiage used was
tailored to me.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> My degree was changed on my 1st "pro" resume.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> In what way VFM?
<[Tony] A.MENARD1> Upward I hope hehehe
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> Well, kinda sideways, from history to English.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Interesting. Did you have a double major?
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> if my school had allowed it, yes. History and business.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I see...O.K.....
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> kinda rough situation.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> someone asked..
<JOHN.MAIHOS> How many resumes I receive on an advertised position.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Generally it depends on where I advertise.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> If I stay local, I get
<JOHN.MAIHOS> somewhere between 5-30.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I know...that's quite a range.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I get around 40 unsolicited resumes per week.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I don't think that's many in the newspaper business.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> But it exceeds the number of position I have opened.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> There was another question....
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> David you had a question about software to write resumes.
<[Tony] A.MENARD1> there are often as many as 200 or more resumes received for
an advertised position. I really can't believe they are all read.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> VFM man asked about references too.
<[David] D.MEYER1> I have several questions...
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> I asked RE references.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> It depends on the firm.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> You can see by the numbers that I can handle my volume.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Larger firms have people who specialize in hiring.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> When 200 resumes are received...
<JOHN.MAIHOS> there is usually a quick qualifier.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> By that I mean a KEYWORD.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> or KEY experience.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> If it's not seen, you get passed by.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Only on a second pass might a "hidden" talent be found.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> That's why Mike might suggest you use a professional.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> Since I have run my own firm for 5 years who do I use
for professional references? Except for some few temp assignments, I have not
had a boss in 5 or 6 years.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> That's the question I remember!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> You must have customers!
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> John do you feel that references should be included in the
resume?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Sure.
<[Tony] A.MENARD1> Hi James
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Professional references can certainly be good customers.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> True, folks who advertise in my magazine. But how does
it look to my customers if I am out looking for additional work?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Heck, you gotta pay the bills!
<[James] J.CLARK91> I think that the personal computer has made it a most
"fortunate" time to be unemployed... double edged sword.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I'd suggest you only us an advertiser who is familiar with your
position.
<[James] J.CLARK91> It gives opportunities for work, and makes it easy to look
good in work.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> If you write articles....
<JOHN.MAIHOS> you can always use a contact as a reference.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Someone who was happy with your work.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> Okay, another thought, what about "action words" in
resumes? Everyone seems "dynamic,...etc."
<JOHN.MAIHOS> True!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> But those type words work.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> I do write articles & interviews. Film reviews mostly.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Not "dynamic" perse
<JOHN.MAIHOS> but other action verbs are good.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> Not "wacky" I suppose? ;)
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Dynamic isn't a verb anyway!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Completed.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Increased profits.
<[Roger] RGLARSON> The resume discussion has gone it's way?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Led.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> etc.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> I said "words", not verbs. :) Mom was an English
teacher.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I know, but I said verb. It was my error I was correcting.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Hi Roger...
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> oh
<[Roger] RGLARSON> Hi, John.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> we are talking about resumes here.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> David had a question
<[Roger] RGLARSON> Resumes are more important than ever lately.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> HEY!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I've been to Broken Arrow!
<[David] D.MEYER1> I have a comment first.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Than after David James is next.
<[Tony] A.MENARD1> I have a system that works pretty well that I got from "What
Color is Your Parachute"
<[David] D.MEYER1> for VFW, I have a friend in a similar situation about
references.
<[Roger] RGLARSON> Is this discussion 'pseudo' moderated?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Yes.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> VFM, I get calls for the VFW every month. :)
<[David] D.MEYER1> He is using people that were customers but have moved to
other positions.
<[David] D.MEYER1> Just a thought. Now for my questions ...
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> Thanks, David.
<[David] D.MEYER1> How about length? I am applying for technical positions. Is
it okay for my resume to be more than one page in length?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I generally don't recommend resumes that are more than 1 page...
<JOHN.MAIHOS> but for a technical position, the rules can change.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I've seen 6 page resumes in such positions.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Most resumes for technical positions average 2 pages.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> 6 is too many.
<[Janet] J.ATTARD> John, what about for writers with lots of publications to
list?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> 2 to 3 MAX is O.K.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I like to see supplements.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> WORKS PUBLSIHED
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> In what form John?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Just an easy-to-read form.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Not too busy.
<[David] D.MEYER1> I have heard that writing resumes on non-white paper (like
light gray) makes it stand out. Is there any truth to that?
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> Excerpts, complete articles?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> First David....
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> sp, excerpts.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Certain colors are perfectly acceptable.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> White, gray, off-white, (I like light blue too.)
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Nothing like a bright color though.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> <-- Rejects fluorescent orange resumes. Call me fickle.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> The off-white is generally called Ivory I think.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Ivory
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Depending upon the job applied for....
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Gray can be a down color...
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> doesn't really help to sell you in the process.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> VFM man... you had another question...
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> Hmmm, covered action words... <thinking>
<JOHN.MAIHOS> My look back buffer says.....
<JOHN.MAIHOS> something about articles/excerpts.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> Oh, you mentioned "supplements".
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Yes I did.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> spaces take so much time & space in this crowded,
hectic world. ;)
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> What is a supplement John?
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> What form of supplements in terms of writer's product?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I'd say a supplement is an extra page you'd send with your cover
letter and resume.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> If you have many articles to list, it might be used.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Article title, where published, when published, etc.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> In my case it's virtually an entire magazine.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> In that case, send a copy of the magazine if you can.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Possibly under separate cover.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> ah, good enough.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> We have time for one more question. Anyone?
<[David] D.MEYER1> This is another comment. Since I have a computer, I decided
to use it to my advantage and bought some resume software. It helped me with
formatting and examples of resumes and cover letters.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> He's a more specific question related to John's
business.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> What kind of response have you had Dave?
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> From the resumes sent out?
<[David] D.MEYER1> Fair. about 5% response. 1 interview. 1 offer being
negotiated.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I suppose if you get the job, the software was worth it!
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Do you feel that the software helped you to develop your
resume?
<[David] D.MEYER1> Will be for me! 8-)>
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> and get the negotiation ?
<[David] D.MEYER1> I definitely think it helped. I had no real idea of how to
format it.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Before I leave...
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> VFM Man your question and then John has to leave us.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> When you hire folks for the syndicate, is it from
resumes or more often informal or business contacts
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I'd like to thank everyone for stopping in.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I don't get involved with hiring people for syndicated features.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Most of those people are contracted.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> oops, I misunderstood your JD.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> No problem.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I may not have been clear.
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> :)
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> OK I hope we were able to answer some of your questions...
<JOHN.MAIHOS> O.K. folks.... we'll be here most Monday nights at 10PM
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Stop in again!
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Thanks John for being here!
<[(VFM Man)] D.DEATON3> Thanks for your time!
<[David] D.MEYER1> Thank you!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> My pleasure
<[Jim] J.STEINGROBE> Is it over?
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Only for this week!
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> We will have more on resumes!
<[Janet] J.ATTARD> There's the board between now and next week, btw
<[Jim] J.STEINGROBE> Oh, Ok, is there info on here about Resumes?
<[Janet] J.ATTARD> some in the library that you'll find useful
<[Jim] J.STEINGROBE> OK, I will check them out.
<[Jim] J.STEINGROBE> Thanks
<[Janet] J.ATTARD> plus watch for uploads of transcript for tonight
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Yes there are several files including our previous RTCs in
the library.
=== END ===